Thursday, April 07, 2005

To Nice Guys who Finish Last, From Nitpicky Confusing Bitches

The other day Kris left me this note..."You might dig nice guys, but they still finish last. How many have you dumped vs. how many have dumped you? I am firmly convinced of this. If you REALLY like nice guys, you are the exception. Most women like to think that, but really don't. Generally, the guys that are the most successful with relationships are ugly assholes with large penii."

Kris, I thought of this as a perfect opportunity. Hopefully you'll be one to give me some feedback. Good or bad it's all helpful. (Oh yeah, thank you for linking me.)

First, i'll grant you that yes the last mistake did just HAPPEN to be a munter with ginormous appendage. Go ahead, chuckle in your righteousness. BUT he had no idea what to do with it and i'm not saying that just because im being spiteful, he really didn't know. I liked that about him though because I figured he was probably telling the truth when he said he'd only been with 2 women ever. I liked that his day job was as a carpenter, he worked really hard. And he was very sweet to me, at first. I truly thought he was a nice guy. I thought the fact that he wasn't very attractive was a good thing and made him less likely to cheat. But in that respect I guess most people are the same, and there are no guarantees. In the beginning he had told me the whole nice guys finished last thing, i'm a nice guy and blah blah. Yeah he was so nice that he had himself posted all over date sites and for all the twig he was swinging he didn't have the berries to tell me he wanted to break up.

And I know no one will believe this, but the musician thing had nothing to do with it, I swear it was the carpentry. I am a carpenter groupie. Almost every guy i've ever dated played something, it's common, but I melt over a man who can fix things! I even have a little crush on Johnny because of it. I would easily pass over Chris Cornell, Dave Navarro and all of Blink 182 to go out with Ty Pennington...ok well maybe not Dave Navarro but he's married so the point is moot.
I'm also pretty sure that any guy who practices drumming for years at a time is going to have a big one. I'm convinced something about all that double base flops it around and stretches things out. So there you all have the secret, run out and buy 14 piece set of pearl and commence the enlargement.

YES I have broken up with many men. I'll have you know that I have rarely broken up with a guy without a very good reason...Including but not limited to, drug addiction, alcoholism, cheating, violence, prison sentences and at my very worst, just because the relationship was going nowhere after 5 years. And in many cases I did not give up easily. I'll also have you know, that every one of these claimed "nice guy" status. I will cop to one or two mistakes on my part with genuinely nice men, those situations having to do with my own insecurity.

Point is, almost every guy claims to be the ultimate in nice guys and every one of those chants the "ngfl" mantra. These same guys are the ones who have done everything from stalk me to hold a gun to my head. I've watched my dearest male friends whine to me about this and then go out an cheat on their new girlfriends.

Men are very tricky, you don't wear signs. You usually don't tell us when you know you're a jerk (although there has been the occasional exception, thank you!) and you do not always dress appropriately jerky. I know I go for the dark tattooe'd type but most of my not nice guys didn't look like your typical "bad boy". Strangely, my most healthy relationships were with men who had full sleeve tattoos and labret piercings.

So I propose a trade, I'll tell you why not just nice guys but any guy may be finishing last. In return please give me pointers. Tell me how to weed out the nice guy from the butt licking jackass in a few short minutes. Point me in the direction of nice guy-con, I'll buy tickets for all 3 days. I'm serious, help. Because I don't want to waste my time anymore and it's obvious I'm not going to get the truth from whatever current shit shank i'm dating.

All that being said, here goes.

Women are equally guilty for causing confusion to all guys by lying when using the, "you're just too nice" line to escape them. There are some women who genuinely mean that line when they say it, but not many. Forgive us, we don't like hurting your feelings. And forgive us in those instances where you are TRULY nice guys, but like every man, women have some standards too. Anyway, I'm happy to help with the truth and explain the real reason you're getting dumped/turned down and possibly hearing that line over and over. Ten typical examples are as follows:

1. You're the guy who doesn't own a spine and tends to agree to everything your girlfriend says. Just so you know, we do figure this out pretty quickly. Not only is it annoying to have a man without his own opinions, we wonder how long it will be until you get fed up with hiding what you really want and spontaneously combust. It's just not healthy all around.

2. The guy who is so nice we feel WE have to protect YOU from the heckling jock douchebag at the local bar.
I'm speaking for myself here, but I like a man who can protect me if need be. I know it's the most basal, cro-mag instinct I could have and I should probably get over it, but I'm not gonna. I have on occasion set it aside though.
By the way, some women assume that "I'm a pacifist" is secret code for "I'm a chicken shit."

3. You're a momma's boy.
No woman should have to compete with your mother, on any level. If you haven't set that limitation with mom, you deserve to live with her. Forever.

4. Bad: You are the depressive artsy dark writer of shoddy poetry.
Worse: You are the depressive artsy dark writer of shoddy poetry you devote to latest/current girl, every single day.
Horrible: You are the depressive artsy dark writer of shoddy poetry devoted to latest/current girl and you burst into tears while reading it to her, Every. Single. Day.
(minus a billion points if you have bookloads of tear smeared shoddy poetry devoted to each and every girl you've ever dated.)

5. Also bad, The quietly arrogant intellectual genius crap. It only works with the ladies if you're unbelievably hot and sometimes, not even then. Eventually it gets old no matter how hot you are. NOTE: We do not consider this a nice guy. The nice guy thing excludes arrogance born through insecurity.

6. You're the earthy stinky hippy guy. Earthy hippy, ok, stinky no, dreadlocks no, covering it all up with patchouli, NO and if your head stinks, don't even think we're risking the trip to happyland.

7. Your cock is too damn small. Most women can deal just fine with average and a little below, but the whole "It's not the size" thing? It's a lie, ok.
If girls happen to read this i'm sure they will protest loudly to the contrary because women will do anything to gain the attention and approval of men, any men. Even men they don't plan to sleep with (what can I say we're f*d up ok?)
But I'm here to tell you, It matters. I'm being honest, remember? So if you have 4" or below start reading books on more prone positions, learn good tongue action or get on that drumming thing ASAP.

8. You're just kinda creepy.

9. You have 5 children by different women, you're paying out every dime you have to said women, you're a janitor and you've done all this damage by age 23.

10. And Last, we plain and simply don't find you very attractive and don't want to hurt your feelings by saying so.
I am forever astonished at the amount of nasty men who have the balls to say things like, "Why not? I'm a good looking guy".
Deep down you know who you are. Hairy chests are ok, hairy backs ARE NOT...there are salons, go get that shit waxed. Ditto for the unibrow. Get your teeth capped, go to the gym, buy pants that fit. Do what you have to do to improve your appearance and not give off the future fat lazy guy on the couch doing the ol' pinch n' roll, impression. If you already are the fat lazy guy on the couch doing the ol' pinch n' roll, cut it the f*ck out.
Don't get all uppity and defensive and give me the "accept me as I am" b.s. because i've never read a personals ad that read "Single Male seeks, fat slovenly girl with no teeth."
And if you're one of these same nasty lazy men who has the nerve to dog unattractive women or shout some derogatory comment about the size of someones ass or areola's, you need to be bitch-slapped. And yes bitch-slapped to the degree that it becomes a two word hyphenate.

Ok...

Some women add to these with rules like not too short, not too bald, not too poor etc. There are addendums to these rules, for instance, rule #8 includes 55 year old men trying to get with 20 year old women. Men who are just too socially inept to do anything but stare at your boobs while they talk, etc. You could all be genuinely nice but ya know, ew. Most women however make many exceptions provided you're charming, funny and not a jerk. Still others will accept anything provided your bank roll is fat enough.

Personally, I think I'm pretty open minded. I am ok with somewhat overweight, balding, shorter, poorer and childed. And if in fact you do happen to be a fairly emotionally stable, clean, hard working, loyal, romantic, thoughtful, non-cheating, kind hearted and a truly NICE GUY then pat yourself on the back and please email me.

Oh and if it makes you feel any better, girth is more important than length anyway.

24 people hosed down:

Sarah said...

Extremely well-said, chica! Sorry to hear about the asshole...men suck.

diligent law student said...

amen, sister! ALL guys say the whole nice guys finish last thing. Oh, and the "I won't treat you like the guys before you" or "I'm a romantic at heart" - yeah, well if you're such a freakin romantic, why are you a jackass? Nice guys don't have to say that they are a nice guy, too - they shouldn't have to say it, and to tell the truth, I'm a little weary if someone has to out and out tell me they are a nice guy.

diligent law student said...

Oh, and where do the nice girls fit in this equation? Are we just destined to end up with one of these big "penised" jackasses? :-) just a thought

Johnny Virgil said...

Wow, that was a great, insightful post. Thanks for the shout out-you made me blush. (We won't talk about my crush on you generated simply from viewing two pictures and your movie and book list.)

BUT.....I hate to tell you this, but either I am an anomaly, or your theory is flawed. I played drums in rock bands from the time I was 14 to the time I was 4 years out of college, and I never got any bigger. I'm a left handed drummer, so maybe that's it...

On the other hand, I can fix almost anything, and make a windsor chair out of a tree, so there's that. :)

MPH said...

I think nice girls typically end up with the uh "big penised jackasses" because most guys, nice or not, are still looking for a girl with a bit of a bad streak. Those girls may also be nice, but not as nice as the "nice girls." Thus, the truly nice guys and nice girls are never looking at each other because they are looking to step up a bit in the range of people they are seeing and are more likely to see one another as friends.

Kris said...

Alex, that is a great post. Nain's world hit the nail on its head. If a guy says he's a nice guy, stay away from him! Even if he's telling the truth, he's doomed to finish last anyway, so don't worry about it, hehehe. Seriously, though, the nice guys that you want to get with are not the ones that are nice because they are TRYING to be nice (those are the ones that say it and eventually stop trying because it's not in their nature), they are the ones that ARE nice (and therefore it doesn't occur to them to say it).

The biggest factor in whether or not a guy is going to be your nice guy is determined by how much the guy likes you. Not as a significant other, not as a fuck buddy, but on the friendship level. I am a big advocate of friends fucking. If you are friends with someone, chances are that you could have a great relationship with them. You just have to both agree to be fuckbuddies out loud so that it doesn't get awkward the next morning.

It IS true that nice guys finish last, and I know you ladies all want to argue, but hear me out.

Guys that are sexy generally only date women they think are sexy (this includes beergoggles), and generally only do it for sex (since that is what all guys think about anyway. Another truth there, but I'll save that for another post). Eventually a woman who is better looking or equally sexy will come along and the sexy guy will chase after her often without taking the time to break up with sexy girl #1. These guys are assholes. Women LOVE them because they are sexy, especially if they are well hung. For some reason, these are the guys that women chase after most.

Ugly men with big penises tend to do the best with women because they are hung well, so they're not desperate, but they're ugly enough to know to hold on to their women, because who knows when the next time a woman is going to get drunk enough to think they're Brad Pitt again? Most women will NOT date an ugly guy. They simply won't.

Therefore, looks are more important to women in general, most good looking guys aren't nice guys, so nice guys typically finish last.

Kris said...

I should clarify on the fuck buddies bit. Being fuck buddies is not necessary, BUT, nothing says I'm attracted to you like body language during sex. If you are friends with someone and you have great sex, chances are you are going to hit it off eventually anyway.

Also, take into account that I don't believe that men and women can be just friends (usually one wants to hump the other to begin with anyway), unless they meet one or more of the following conditions:

1) One of the friends is gay.
2) Both of the friends are dating/married to someone else.
3) You met this person on the internet and really have no idea what sex the person is, regardless of what that person claims to be. (MPH for example, is really a 12 year old, 5'1" girl.)
4) One of the friends is a monk/nun, and the other friend isn't interested in monks/nuns.
*5) The friends are also siblings/cousins.

* This rule doesn't apply in Mississippi, Arkansas, or Kentucky.

Kris said...

Also, when I say that ugly guys tend to do the best with women, I mean that from the "best relationship" standpoint, not with sheer quantity of relationships, in which nice guys finish last.

Sarah said...

Hey, Kris! I'm best friends w/ someone of the opposite sex...who I met online, but we've also spent time together in person so i know he's the sex he claims to be..neither one of us are dating anyone else, and neither of us are homosexual....wooohooo..i'm finally an exception to a rule!!!

Kris said...

Don't bet on it. Get really drunk and then confront him about whether or not he is interested in you, either physically or more. I'd bet he says yes!

Alex said...

Sarah - Indeed, with the same force as black holes in space.

Nain- No kidding! Or, "I'm not like all the rest" Yeah yeah, bastards. You are absolutely right. For the nice girls, I sure hope not but things seem pretty dire to me right now.

Johnny- First, I find it hard to believe nothing grew from the age of 14 on. Second, you either wore tighty-whities or you're being modest. I'm guessing it's the latter, my shiny little bubble refuses to be burst.

"On the other hand, I can fix almost anything, and make a windsor chair out of a tree, so there's that.:)"

*swoon*

MPH- Huh?
Ok, so nice guys don't want nice girls either. Check. I'm still confused though because while I'm not a gold digger and my total sexual partner list remains in the single digits..I have been known to utter phrases like, "4 day bender" and "I'm with the band." Not sure where I land on the good girl to bad girl scale. Nice with a touch of naughty perhaps?

Kris- I'm going to have to think on this more before I respond.

Johnny Virgil said...

dammit. I knew I should have switched to boxers.

Steven said...

The problem is with all good seems to come some bad. Just need to find a happy medium somewhere along the line. I think I'm a nice enough guy but I know I'm not mister perfect. Trying to be perfect is one thing, realising you'll never get there and never will be is another but its the attempt that counts really. Its better than nothing at all. I never really liked generalizations like 'nice guys' 'bad girls' and 'women are all bitches' or 'men all suck'. People all have their bad sides. I used to have a real shit attitude and well, its still around but I try keeping it quiet because theres no point in being pissed off and angry all the time. I still have my crazy moments, everyone does. Some people just choose to not try and improve and say 'fuck the world' which can be a good thing depending on the reasoning behind it. Its one thing to be nice, its another to be a doormat and then blame all the women of the world for it. We all have our problems and our shit sides to our personalities. The key is to remember that and to take the good with the bad. The problem is sometimes its harder to remember all the good stuff that really does matter between people when the bad shit seems to be what people remember most. I do agree with plenty thats been said and always enjoy ready your blog Alex. :)

Steven said...

And yeah, I know theres a lot more posted here than what I talked about. :) I just tried to sum things up but I doubt it worked well enough.

Kris said...

Ack! I just want to point out that I bear no ill will towards women.

diligent law student said...

Kris - you're hilarious with all the posts - we hold no ill will towards you for your insight - you raise some very good points!

Alex said...

Kris-Sorry this took so long.

Ok, so never trust a wolf in sheeps clothing, unless the wolf really likes you as a person.

Guys that are sexy get women cause they are sexy. Much like women who are sexy get men, while ugly women do not, it's just the way of things. Woman don't actually like the asshole part, they're just hoping to find a decent looking nice guy. Unfortunately we have to wait until they've gotten fat and knocked up at least one other women before they decide it's time to settle down.

But see I HAD an extremely ugly man with a big penis and he was an ass too, so what's your theory on that? I mean, I don't really think i'm all that but I could do much MUCH better. I was banking on the ugly thing to give me the security thing. Didn't work. Of course, he did have the drummer thing going for him so im sure plenty of women put ugly thing aside for that.

Im thinking now I might just do the gold digging thing.

So far as fuck buddies, i'm just not that type of girl. I have to be committed to someone before I get into all that. And I would never sleep with any of my guy friends, I know where they've been. Eesh.

Which brings us to the men and women cant be friends...You forgot..
#6..If you've known each other since you were barfing up pepperment schnapps at the 7h grade dance.

I grew up hanging out with a whole group of guys and while there were one or two attractions that came up over the years I have never 'dated' any of them and dont think either side would want to. Even after the occasional makeout with the one the attraction was with, it was mutually agreed that we would kill each other should we pursue anything more.
Anyway, I think there comes a point where you've just been friends too long.

Ugly guys do best in relationships because the women who are with them truly love them for who they are. Or all their money depending on the situation. If a woman dates an ugly man she really likes HIM. Which is the best way to go all around right?

Finally, What i've gotten from all this is that all guys are assholes unless they're really really ugly (read; desperate) or from the first moment they've decided that a girl is "The One". Would that be a fair statement?

But I'm still left with the most important question. WHAT THE HELL DO MEN WANT? What are you looking for? What would your ultimate of dream girls be like? Run me down the list of traits that you look for..or men in general look for, please. Even if you know it's a fantasy person that couldn't possibly exist. I want to know. I'm sure many girls would thank you.

Kris said...

Alex, you couldn't let me off easy, could you? ha ha! Okay, of course you can't take what I am saying as law, I am full of sweeping generalizations in this, but when talking about the sexes, that's exactly what one is doing. So, keep in mind that there are exceptions, but this is the general rule (as far as I'm concerned).

There are other factors that I didn't mention. Being a drummer for instance, is certainly a factor. Jobs and "professional hobbies" (by which I mean any hobby that could also be a job, like being in a band or racing your '67 chevette) can have the potential to land women, despite the factors laid out above.

To keep it a simple, sweeping generalization, typically the more attractive one is, the more of an asshole one is. This goes for women too, granted. I can't stand a sexy woman that knows she is sexy. They don't get to experience my girth (which I am proud of). God I hope Mysterious Lubba D doesn't read this.

I'll have to take #6 into consideration. I would think that doesn't really count, because after high school, your life changes so much that your friendships were with different people, respectively, unless you continue to hang out with those people, and that's rare at best.

Don't go gold-digging! You will be miserable. That's like work.

Your Ugly-Man-Big-Penis could have fallen into a different category that I haven't mentioned yet, or he could just be an exception. There is a whole 'nother category of men that are misogynistic based on their past experiences. Maybe he just hated women, but thought you looked like a good place for his massive penis. Unfortunate if that was the case, but there are people like that out there. Hopefully you got a little fun out of it at least.

With the fuck buddies part, I don't mean that should be something you do, just that if you're close friends enough with someone, i.e. if you manage to slip through the miniscule cracks to be an exception to the rule, if you wind up having sex with them, something WILL blossom.

In the sweeping generalization sense, yes, that is a fair statement.

Hmm. I am not sure anyone can answer that question. It varies so much. Sex is probably the only universal answer, but that's not all in most cases. For instance, a typical conversation between guys when talking about a specific female could go like this:

Guy 1: Damn, check that girl out, she's hot!
Guy 2: Damn!

Or like this:

G1: Damn, check that girl out, she's hot!
G2: You're on crack, man.

Or even like this:

G1: I'd do Oprah.
G2: I don't care how much money she's got, I have standards.
G3: Would you do Fat Oprah?

Some guys like women that will clean up after them, cook them dinner, etc., like their mother. Other guys like women that are independant. Some guys like submissive women, other guys like dominant women. There's no universal answer at all.

I used to want a harem, if that helps.

Johnny Virgil said...

I like these traits:
good sense of humor
someone who gets my sense of humor
intelligent
creative
physically fit
likes the outdoors
likes cheesy horror movies

and if she has a pretty face,that always helps.

Johnny Virgil said...

crap, I left out a biggie. Most guys find self-confidence incredibly sexy.

Terry said...

I think you can't figure out what guys want because all guys are different. Since they are all unique and different themselves then there's no way they'd all want the exact same type of girl. Same way with girls.

Alex said...

Steven - Yes, all men and women have their good and bad points. No one can be nice all the time and there are plenty of people who have become bitter due to being walked on one too many times. All true. It's very tough not to be bitter sometimes though isn't it?

Kris-
"Alex, you couldn't let me off easy, could you? ha ha!"

Hehe Hell no, I'm 32 I don't have a lot of time, looks won't hold out forever you know!

"I'll have to take #6 into consideration....."

Yeah it's rare but I managed it. Hung out with the same group that had a core of roughly 15, mostly guys, from jr. high all the way up until they threw a going away party for me when I left cal. at 27.

"Don't go gold-digging! You will be miserable. That's like work."

So they tell me but it's work being a woman anyway. Do you have any idea how much time is devoted to grooming alone? And those chicks have all the time in the world to do it, by going to a day spa, that they dont have to pay for! See nothing about this is sounding bad....

"Hmm. I am not sure anyone can answer that question. It varies so much. Sex is probably the only universal answer, but that's not all in most cases. For instance, a typical conversation between guys when talking about a specific female could go like this:

Guy 1: Damn, check that girl out, she's hot!
Guy 2: Damn!

Or like this:

G1: Damn, check that girl out, she's hot!
G2: You're on crack, man.

Or even like this:

G1: I'd do Oprah.
G2: I don't care how much money she's got, I have standards.
G3: Would you do Fat Oprah?"


That was just hilarious.

I used to want a harem, if that helps."

Haha! One with big boobs...one with small boobs..and so on?

Johnny- Thank you.

Ok i'm just making a new post.

Steven said...

"It's very tough not to be bitter sometimes though isn't it?"

Can't argue with that. :)

Anonymous said...

You make a good point, still in the end, put the dick in your mouth and all that baggage is as meaningful as marriage, not very meaningful.

I realize this is over a year old...